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 CPWdirector |
#21 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/24/08 8:33 AM |
blackmoonast wrote: That is hysterical, Donna....YOU put that dog up for Best of Breed! lmao What kind of person gets joy out of the suffering and misfortune of others? Just because you think people are talking about you, doesn't make it so....it just means your paranoid! |
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kyle7630 |
#22 | |||
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Gaff Junior
05/24/08 8:46 AM |
Here's a spin off of the topic. Do you think that there should be a set ammount of points a dog can obtain without becoming a Ch? This would help curb the
500 point Ch syndrome IMO. But then again, if the dog had ribbons withheld or was excused from the ring, maybe this would help the owner to get the picture.
???
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice"
Bill Cosby |
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Prairieland Knls |
#23 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/24/08 8:52 AM |
What year was this show you are talking about? This was my first Elburn show. I wish I could have seen this dog she speaks of.
Ms Donna R. Show2 Sat Feb 2, 2008 BM- Blue & white male of Prentice's BF/BOW/BOB- Prodigy's Lady in Red CH- Sasha & I GrCH- Panda & Jen |
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CPWdirector |
#24 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/24/08 10:16 AM |
Lyndsey...this was the Feb Elburn show she is talking about. She judged the second show on Saturday and showed on Sunday, so she had time to watch. I
didn't enter any dogs under her as the one time I did, she put Bud up over Flower for Breed. The February shows at WWDTC were the WI Boston Terrier
Association shows on the 9th and 10th. I apprenticed APBT's on Saturday and judged on Sunday.
What kind of person gets joy out of the suffering and misfortune of others? Just because you think people are talking about you, doesn't make it so....it just means your paranoid! |
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blackmoonast |
#25 | |||
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Gaff Junior
05/24/08 11:28 AM |
Wow this has gotten way off topic.
I was at the show in WI in Feb 08.I was only there on Sat. I went to Elburn on Sunday only 08. Those are the only two UKC shows I have been to. I thought about going to the one in Racine,but got busy doing stuff at home. I have been to a few AKC shows looking for a dog.As I would like to meet a breeder in person not over the internet. There just doesn't seem to be any dogs out in AKC at this time. |
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Prairieland Knls |
#26 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 9:26 AM |
If you are up for the drive its alittle farther than those shows St. Louis is going to have the National Specialty there this year. There is going to be lots
of dogs there.
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CPWdirector |
#27 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 11:07 AM |
blackmoonast wrote: Well, I don't want to misunderstand what you are saying, but it sounds like you have been to two shows and feel yourself competent to make broad sweeping statements about the quality of dogs in WI and IL. Thats pretty insulting to people like Prarieland, Missie, Jen and myself. What kind of person gets joy out of the suffering and misfortune of others? Just because you think people are talking about you, doesn't make it so....it just means your paranoid!
Last Edited By: CPWdirector 05/26/08 12:57 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Ton80pits |
#28 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 11:35 AM |
Jen
Ton 80 APBTs
Stucture, Health and Love RBIMBS Gr Ch Ton 80's Bamboo Delight "Panda"
Gr Ch Lucky Rock's Lil' Orphan Annie "Annie"
BAIMBS Ch Ton 80's Lexus Diamond CGC retired "Lexus" |
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Prairieland Knls |
#29 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 2:11 PM |
Stephanie you forgot about Amy! lol its alright about insulting me cause I wasnt at none of them shows she is talking about. WTFE!lol
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CPWdirector |
#30 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 3:05 PM |
Prairieland Knls wrote: Of coarse, Amy too....so if you didn't talk to this person, Jen didn't talk to them, and I didn't talk to them...hmmmm...wonder which APBT
exhibitors they were talking to?
What kind of person gets joy out of the suffering and misfortune of others? Just because you think people are talking about you, doesn't make it so....it just means your paranoid! |
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missmelmel99 |
#31 | |||
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Gaff Champion
05/26/08 6:19 PM |
Lindsey you were at the Elburn show.......Oh but you were only there on Sat right? I guess i have made it if someone is putting me the category
with all of your dogs. I think that if a good place to be.......
...Missie Peterman
http://home.wi.rr.com/groomingbymissie/ UGRACH UCD MISS MELONIE CD RAE AJP AXP NAC NJC NGC NTC ONG CGC TDI The first APBT to get the UGRACH title in Agility AGI CH JHNSNS TWINKLE TWINKLE LIL STAR CGC 
Soon the be competing in Agility,Obedience, and Weight Pull |
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Ton80pits |
#32 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 9:40 PM |
Oh my yea I don't remember meeting anyone new so I wonder???
Jen
Ton 80 APBTs
Stucture, Health and Love RBIMBS Gr Ch Ton 80's Bamboo Delight "Panda"
Gr Ch Lucky Rock's Lil' Orphan Annie "Annie"
BAIMBS Ch Ton 80's Lexus Diamond CGC retired "Lexus" |
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Prairieland Knls |
#33 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 9:46 PM |
CPWdirector wrote: I have heard a couple Judges say the same thing Stephanie. One Judge I overheard saying that He would have liked to with hold the ribbons or even DQ some
dogs at a certain show but the dogs still fit in the standard so he gave them Ribbons.
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Ton80pits |
#34 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/26/08 9:47 PM |
I think she speaks of the WI and IL show in feb.
WI Saturday results she said she was at Show 1
Jen
Ton 80 APBTs
Stucture, Health and Love RBIMBS Gr Ch Ton 80's Bamboo Delight "Panda"
Gr Ch Lucky Rock's Lil' Orphan Annie "Annie"
BAIMBS Ch Ton 80's Lexus Diamond CGC retired "Lexus" |
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KimJayPits |
#35 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/27/08 8:38 AM |
I don't understand how the standard is vague? Other than we have no size standard..which IMO is giving us the variabilty we see in the breed. I see not
variance on anything else. The UKC standard is pretty detailed. I think the the way we interpret the standard is what is wide open..LOL. The structure should
never vary but when it comes to size,head, muscle etc. everyone has their own opinion of what is functional. Heck UKC even has a head to muzzle ratio that I
wonder if people actually read and absorb...
Heck go look at the AKC standard. That has not changed at all and is nowhere near as detailed as the UKC but then again alot of the rules on structure should go without saying. I don't see how a judge could want to withold ribbons but the dog still meets the standard unless it was for tempermant issues or lacked breed type...which would actually NOT meet the standard? A dog can be structurally a nice specimen but if it doesn't even resemble a APBT then the rest is moot. All dogs have faults but the breed type and soundness must be there! I say put a height and weight standard and you will lose the variability in this breed. But then who decides what is functional as far as size goes..heh? I am not trying to be arguementive or a know it all....just my opinions. 
6. Withholding placements. Judges play an important role in the selection of future breeding stock. For that reason, UKC Judges must not reward any dog that lacks sufficient quality to be a champion. In very large classes, such dogs are usually left out of the placements. In small classes, however, it is important that Judges deny placements to dogs that are so lacking in breed type and soundness that they should never achieve a champion title. Judges withholding placements for lack of quality must note this in the Judge's Book and specifically address the elements where the dog fails to meet the standard. Judges must always take the time to discuss withheld placements with the exhibitor, either at the end of judging the class or the breed. Just wanted to add that I attended a WI show in 2007 and the quality of dogs were nice. The champions and grands were all nice and their was not 1 dog I saw that did not deserve to be there IMO. Most that know me know I am not overly complimentary on dogs unless I feel they are REALLY deserving ...LOL.
Last Edited By: KimJayPits 05/27/08 8:43 AM.
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 Integrity APBTS |
#36 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/27/08 8:44 AM |
OK, so I have a question. Don't want to start an argument, etc. Just a question. Say there are 5 dogs in the ring. Each has a serious fault. Would it be
appropriate for a Judge to withhold a ribbon then?
Integrity APBT's
www.IntegrityAPBTs.com Instead of talking about what I AM doing, think about what you're NOT doing!! 
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CPWdirector |
#37 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/27/08 8:49 AM |
From the UKC Rulebook
6. Withholding placements. Judges play an important role in the selection of future breeding stock. For that reason, UKC Judges must not reward any dog that lacks sufficient quality to be a champion. In very large classes, such dogs are usually left out of the placements. In small classes, however, it is important that Judges deny placements to dogs that are so lacking in breed type and soundness that they should never achieve a champion title. Judges withholding placements for lack of quality must note this in the Judge's Book and specifically address the elements where the dog fails to meet the standard. Judges must always take the time to discuss withheld placements with the exhibitor, either at the end of judging the class or the breed. To me, as a judge, this is so vague that, on one hand, it could be interpreted that if I would not put that dog in a breeding program, I should withhold. But if you go on to read the rest of the paragraph, Judges are expected to explain where the dog doesn't meet the Standard.....again, the Standard for the APBT is open to each individuals interpretation. I could see if an exhibitor brought in a blue eyed dog, but the Standard only says that is a serious fault and not a disqualification. I know the UKC is trying to be politically correct and very exhibitor-friendly, but at what point are they doing more harm to the breed than good? What kind of person gets joy out of the suffering and misfortune of others? Just because you think people are talking about you, doesn't make it so....it just means your paranoid! |
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bmac650 |
#38 | |||
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Gaff Junior
05/27/08 9:02 AM |
Prairieland Knls wrote: Stephanie I find it disturbing that you as a judge and breeder can not determine if a dog is show quality. If you can determine if a dog is show quality or pet the same calculation will help determine ribbon or no ribbon. And as far as DQs the standard tells exactly which dogs should be DQ. |
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Prairieland Knls |
#39 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/27/08 9:19 AM |
The Judge at this event With held the first place Because all the dogs were high in the rear "Bad toplines". Thats all I heard I know there was
probably something else but I dont know I wasn't in the ring.
I agree w/ with holding ribbons but only a handful of Judges do it. I know for a fact that there has been dogs that where in the TT with similar faults so why are they there? Thanks Kim. They all were pretty nice at the show we all went to! lol That was Back when Bridgette & the Herbinator where just babies! So long ago though! |
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KimJayPits |
#40 | |||
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Gaff Grand Champ
05/27/08 9:24 AM |
Integrity APBTS wrote: Liz if it were me it would all depend on which serious fault the dog had. There's not many in our breed. But lets just say some dogs had gay tails, some had bad bites/ missing teeth and some had blue eyes/ mismatched or buldging. The tempermant goes without saying and I would automatically excuse a adult dog for not having proper tempermant. Breed type, soundness and tempermant is grounds for withholding. I would not award the dogs with the bad bites or the eye fault. Bites ( including having ALL of the teeth) are VERY important IMO. I guess if I were a judge I would be one of those tooth faries...LOL. I would love to see all judges checking side bites! I guess I do not have a yes or no answer for ya. It goes back to the judge and what serious fault THEY feel will inhibit the dog from doing its job. |
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